http://today.reuters.com/news/newsarticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyid=2005-12-07T200443Z_01_RID771720_RTRUKOC_0_US-SECURITY-PLANE.xml&rpc=22

12/7/2005 3:35:15 PM

Quote :

"A man shot on a boarding bridge at Miami International Aiport has died from his injuries, two sources tell CNN."

12/7/2005 3:37:10 PM

Quote :

"WASHINGTON (Reuters) - A passenger aboard American Airlines flight 924 from Medellin claimed to be carrying a bomb and air marshals shot at him on Wednesday after the plane was parked at Miami International Airport and he tried to flee into the terminal, a Homeland Security spokesman said. "Shots were fired as the team attempted to subdue the subject," the spokesman said."

12/7/2005 3:39:07 PM

Lesson learned.

12/7/2005 3:43:45 PM

He got into a fight with his wife and then decided to leave and got shot

[Edited on December 7, 2005 at 3:53 PM. Reason : .]

12/7/2005 3:47:58 PM

stay out of orlando plz. the only explosions we need here are the 10 oclock fireworks.

12/7/2005 3:55:18 PM

Damn right he fired on him.

12/7/2005 8:08:39 PM

what kind of a fucking bullshit link is that?

12/7/2005 8:10:13 PM

You've never heard of Reuters?

12/7/2005 8:37:13 PM

this makes me feel totally awesome about flying

and i'm not being sarcastic

12/7/2005 8:37:59 PM

^ its el al style

12/7/2005 8:59:13 PM

This is the best thing I've seen this week

12/7/2005 9:12:51 PM

THIS IS SOME PASSENGER 57 SHIT RIGHT HERE

12/7/2005 9:28:13 PM

I wonder if the marshall will face any consequences? I think they actually did the right thing.

12/7/2005 10:25:07 PM

i only hope that this incident does not cause them to re-evaluate their shoot-to-kill policies

12/7/2005 10:32:42 PM

Probably won't. Although this was an unfortunate incident, it seems w/in policy. (although FAM tactics and such are classified). They have one of the toughest jobs in LE. Long hours, tons of training, and fighting off boredom and sleep on long flights.

[Edited on December 7, 2005 at 10:39 PM. Reason : g/s/p]

12/7/2005 10:36:03 PM

marshal has one L, not two

[Edited on December 8, 2005 at 11:48 AM. Reason : +]

12/8/2005 11:48:21 AM

dude was bipolar.....
http://edition.cnn.com/2005/US/12/08/airplane.gunshot/index.html

12/8/2005 11:56:29 AM

can't really say till we get more information, but I see no reason whatsoever to fire in that situation.

12/8/2005 11:57:58 AM

Quote :

"You can't wait till after the explosion to decide if the use of force was justified."

12/8/2005 12:01:43 PM

Man on a plane screaming that he has a bomb, won't listen to commands from federal agents with guns, reaches into the bag where he says he has a bomb in front of agents with guns... and you don't see why they had to shoot?

Shooting to injure does no good if the guy is carrying a bomb.

12/8/2005 12:03:52 PM

ok, so with this plus the shooting of the innocent man in London a couple weeks after their bombings, the score is up to:

security : 1
terrorists : 0

no wait....

terrorists : 2
normal people : 0

.... nope, I think this is it:

better security : 0
normal people : -2

12/8/2005 12:06:07 PM

normal people don't say they have a bomb on a plane, refuse to listen to authorities, and then put his hand in a bag.

Bipolar or not, the marshals were right in taking this man down.

12/8/2005 12:17:40 PM

We weren't there to know what really happened (not saying it wasn't what the story claims, but there might be more to it), but I'd say he deserved to get shot knowing just these details.

12/8/2005 12:23:22 PM

^^^ What the hell are you talking about?

HE SAID HE HAD A BOMB IN THE BAG HE WAS HOLDING AND REACHED INTO IT IN FRONT OF ARMED AIR MARSHALS.

Of course they were going to blow his stupid ass away, bipolar or not.

It's unfortunate, but they did the right thing.

(Don't compare this to london.)

12/8/2005 12:33:49 PM

were authorities alerted to this man before or after he started running?

12/8/2005 12:40:05 PM

^^ we'll see. If it's confirmed that yes, he said he had a bomb and was acting threateningly, then fine.

But remember at first the guy shot in London 1) was wearing a heavy winter coat, 2) was acting suspicious, 3) was yelling and running from the police when we first heard the story, but it turns out the truth was that 1) he was wearing a light jeans jacket, 2) was going to work like he did every day, and 3) was walking normally until he saw his train, which he ran to catch before it left.

12/8/2005 12:52:07 PM

POLICE STATE IN AMERICA!

YOU NO LONGER HAVE THE RIGHT TO SAY YOU HAVE A BOMB ON AN AIRPLANE! YOU FASCISTS!


[/salisburybot]

12/8/2005 12:57:13 PM

Yes, and that's a different situation than what we have here. People regularly run after trains in subway stations when they're running late (it's the fault of misinterpretation by the police officer who did acid that morning in london). People do not regularly get up, say they have a bomb, and run off of a plane with authorities chasing after them telling them to get their asses on the ground (after which point of noncompliance, a threatening action results in them getting shot).

That reuters article isn't very good, either. It's just a little tidbit. Look for a longer article out there, they've got quotes from people on the plane who saw/heard what happened. It basically goes as described in the article, but the man's wife came after the shooting screaming "MY HUSBAND! MY HUSBAND!" while unsuccessfully convincing the marshalls not to shoot because he was bipolar (and maybe ill) and hadn't taken his medication.

12/8/2005 1:00:12 PM

bomb, bomb, bomb, bombbombabomb

12/8/2005 1:00:31 PM

Shoot to kill laws in the name of national security ... I love America. I know bullets are cheap and generally more effective ... but how much more expensive would it be for highly powerful tranquilizer guns?

12/8/2005 6:21:01 PM

why would you want to stun a terrorist, bomb or no bomb we have no place in society for such people.




[Edited on December 8, 2005 at 6:33 PM. Reason : ]]

12/8/2005 6:31:40 PM

If I'm 30-50k feet in the air, I don't want to worry about some dude jumping up, saying he is about to detonate a bomb and then the air marshal shoots him with a stun gun or some poison dart that takes a few seconds to take effect. I want FMJ inserted in his cranium so he can't even think about the muscle reflexes necessary to set off his explosives and bring my fucking plane down.

12/8/2005 6:34:40 PM

Quote :

"ok, so with this plus the shooting of the innocent man in London a couple weeks after their bombings, the score is up to: security : 1 terrorists : 0 no wait.... terrorists : 2 normal people : 0 .... nope, I think this is it: better security : 0 normal people : -2"

12/8/2005 6:40:15 PM

They did their job, and it's bound to happen again. Don't get to suprised by common sense.

12/8/2005 8:09:30 PM

Quote :

"The marshals say Alpizar announced he was carrying a bomb before being killed. However, no other witness has publicly concurred with that account. Only one passenger recalled Alpizar saying, "I've got to get off, I've got to get off," CNN's Kathleen Koch reported."

Here's why this whole thing seems fishy:

NO passengers can corroborate the Air Marshals' account. None heard anything about a bomb threat, reaching into a bag, etc.

The only people telling us these things are the Air Marshals themselves, who have every reason to paint the man as being as crazy as possible. Without the imminent threat described in their own testimony, they could be rightfully charged with murder. They have every reason to lie or distort....while the only ones who have no such motivation are either silent or paint a very different picture.

Passengers have said the man was agitated, but they either didn't hear the man say anything (Alan Tirpak), or only saw him carrying a bag (Mike Beshears) - which is a pretty big surprise if you're leaving a plane.

Basically, when you only have the word of the shooters (or the shooters' spokesman), the whole thing should be suspect. I have no doubt that, like most federal law enforcement officers, these Air Marshals are enforcer-types with itchy trigger fingers, looking for any situation where they can justify their inflated view of their own importance in protecting people.

The dead guy probably was crazy and agitated, but that's still a long-shot from justifying homicide.

[Edited on December 8, 2005 at 9:06 PM. Reason : a]

12/8/2005 9:04:11 PM

^ Winner.

They should find a wintness who'd corroborate bomb threats. Without one, it's a murder.

12/8/2005 9:12:34 PM

its sad the guy is dead but even if they are lying wouldnt you rather have him shot if at the time there was even 5% chance that he was a terrorist and has a bomb and is gonna detonate it? i sure would

12/8/2005 9:15:51 PM

I know. The guy running off the plane on the boarding bridge is probably about to commit the most horrible terrorist act . 2 suitcases, 3 car seats and a stroller could fall victims to this barbarian.

12/8/2005 9:22:17 PM

newsflash dont run from agents with guns

i dont care if he said he had a piece of shit in his bag

if they told him not to run, they told him not to run



i support the devils advocate approach to message boards but jesus christ

12/8/2005 9:53:44 PM

Quote :

"why would you want to stun a terrorist, bomb or no bomb we have no place in society for such people."

Good troll on the second part. First part ... I would want to stun a person to question them later.

12/8/2005 10:02:09 PM

do terrorists in 2005 use mechanical actuated bombs?

i really dont know

12/8/2005 10:05:09 PM

Quote :

"newsflash dont run from agents with guns"

You cannot shoot a person running from an agent.

12/9/2005 12:54:04 AM

Quote :

"Basically, when you only have the word of the shooters (or the shooters' spokesman), the whole thing should be suspect. I have no doubt that, like most federal law enforcement officers, these Air Marshals are enforcer-types with itchy trigger fingers, looking for any situation where they can justify their inflated view of their own importance in protecting people."

Are you fucking kidding me? WTF, is wrong w/ you? Are you trying to say the most FLEO's are trigger happy? Because I don't see National Marine Fisheries Service Agents running around trying to shoot people or US Mint Police running around looking for people to shoot. Get a grip, the world isn't out to get you.

I can see that Poor FAM on the morning of the shooting: Man, Can't wait to kill the first person that acts funny at work today so that the american people will thank I'm a hero, even though my identity will always be classified to the general public so I can keep my job.

[Edited on December 9, 2005 at 1:14 AM. Reason : ]

12/9/2005 1:04:26 AM

According to CNN, they shot him on the boarding bridge....so if he said he had a bomb there it'd be likely that no one heard it. Also they report the man had his bag strapped to the front of him in a suspicious manner, and that after being told several times to stop and that they were police, the man continued to advance TOWARDS them.

According to the marshals, he was coming towards them and put his hand in his bag.

Like another post said, doesn't matter what he said or what he did on the plane. If he had a bag strapped to his chest and advances towards air marshals despite repeated warnings and puts his hand in a bag...

It's tragic, but he deserved what he got.

12/9/2005 11:19:00 AM

Yes, except so far nobody can verify the marshal's account.

12/9/2005 11:43:37 AM

Quote :

"It's tragic, but he deserved what he got."

Oxymoron much?

Call me out for being all, "protecty of life," but I think there might be a difference in saying that the marshal was justified for shooting him (which he may or may not have been), and saying the guy deserves to get shot.

Since when is wearing a backpack strangely and being bipolar and uncomfortable deserving of being shot?

12/9/2005 11:43:41 AM

If anything, with all these conflicting accounts...the investigation will be inconclusive and will lead to a major overhaul in the way FAM's are trained to deal w/ incidents of a non terrorist nature aboard planes.

12/9/2005 12:00:59 PM

No one else can verify their claim perhaps because when they shot him they were in the bridge and not the plane.

On the flip side, why would Air Marshals who have no previous blemishes on record lie and shoot a guy? Also, note that this isn't one Air Marshal....both guys opened fire on the man.

^^And read deserved to get shot as the marshal was justified...my mistake....wrong words

12/9/2005 12:42:26 PM

I figured as much, mostly from your screen name. Just wanted to be all semantically devilish

12/9/2005 1:14:01 PM