I have a 64 Chevy Bel Air has been sitting for the last 6-9 months. It has an engine from a 68 in it (307). We put the car back together 2 days ago and started her up... as usual it took several tries to get it going, but it ended up running fine.

Yesterday, starting it was much more difficult. The car would vary the speed at which it turned over while cranking. It went something like "chug, chug, chug, chug, chuuuuug, chug, chuuuuug, chug, chug, chug". Every time we tried, it got worse. Also, on the second attempt to start it, a small negative battery ground wire melted and almost caught on fire. It was just a ground, but a very thin cable. There is a second (large) ground cable attached too, so I just disconnected it. I have no idea why it suddenly did that... or why there were two grounds coming off of the negative lead. My guess is that someone installed the bigger cable later for safety, as it doesn't look like an OEM cable.

I tested the battery with a voltmeter, and it read 12.3 volts. Headlights were bright... no serious problems there. I hooked up a booster anyways, which didn't help any. After several tries, it got to the point where it will barely turn over.

Now, my assumption is that the starter is going bad. But, I've never had a starter go bad in a car, so I don't know what the symptoms are... other than not being able to start the car . I could test it with a voltmeter, but it's a real pain to get to, so I just want to check to make sure there's nothing else I'm overlooking.

Any suggestions?

11/18/2005 10:10:59 AM

proper voltage doesnt mean the battery is ok. id bring the battery to autozone and have them test it first to rule that out.

we had a bad starter in the boat recently.. the selenoid would pop but it just had decreasing power to turn anything. to test we took the starter out and hooked it up to a battery directly to play w/ it.. and yeh it didnt do shit really once the selenoid popped out after a few more tries.. new starter worked fine

11/18/2005 10:23:54 AM

you sure it was a wire, not a fusible link, that melted and such?

also grounds should be at least 8 gauge, rewire it all if necessary.

starter may be going and pulling too many amps, pull it and get it checked at az or somethin

11/18/2005 10:53:09 AM

sounds like a ground issue to me... the larger cable may not be making good contact with the block or whatever its connected to, thus causing the current draw of the starter to melt the smaller wire... play around with grounding points on the engine, and make sure there is a good connection b/w engine and body/chassis too

11/18/2005 10:55:32 AM

I was wondering the same thing fordfreak. I think I will try that.

Grapehead, it was just a small wire, maybe 12-14 gauge, that was grounded only about 6in from the battery. It wasn't connected to anything else.

[Edited on November 18, 2005 at 10:59 AM. Reason : ]

11/18/2005 10:59:28 AM

Check out all your cables and make sure all connections are good and not corroded.

That said, the chug chug chug with no solenoid clatter indicates you're probably getting full power to the starter. This leads me to think one of two things: either your starter is seizing OR the ignition timing is too far advanced (very probable; very common issue on Chevy smallblocks).

I can take a look at it if you want...is it here in town?

11/18/2005 11:42:39 AM

^that was my first thought, timing is way out or it's jumped the chain... or worst case you're getting coolant in 1 or more cylinders and it's hydrolocking. hopefully it's just the starter, but that's a pretty uncommon way for a starter to die.

11/18/2005 11:51:20 AM

I checked the ground, and I'm pretty sure it's good. It's at the point now where I can see the fan go about a quarter turn, and then it slows down and stops. I do hear a faint high pitched noise or whirring while it's doing this.

Prior to this we had the distributor out of the car (no changes made). But, the car did run 2 days ago (only ran it for a minute or two though before we turned it off). How would I check the timing without the car running? I normally just use a timing gun. And wouldn't it at least turn over even if the timing was off?

zxappeal, thanks for the offer. I'm in Raleigh, off of Jones Franklin. I'm pretty broke though... couldn't afford to pay much other than beer.

[Edited on November 18, 2005 at 12:47 PM. Reason : ]

11/18/2005 12:45:52 PM

If it's too far advanced, it will do just like that. Of course, just like BigBlueRam said, you could have a cylinder full of water or oil or something and it's hydrolocking. Kind of unlikely, seein's how it's just been running, but possible nonetheless.

If the dizzy's been out, it's oh so possible that the timing is out enough to do this. You can loosen it and retard the timing until the damn thing cranks. Only takes just a little. Once you get 'er cranked, then throw the strobe on it.

I can help you out on this, but it'll be at least tomorrow night, maybe Sunday before I can get over there. You're not too far away.

I don't drink, so that rules out beer as payment. Find a ho to blow me or something. Or come over to the house and help me clean out the garage! haha...

11/18/2005 6:14:03 PM

Lol... I don't drink either.... Maybe I'll just order some pizzas or something. That would be awesome though.

I'll try pulling the distributor out and moving it a little. We had a REALLY hard time getting it in/out last time. The first inch pulling it out is near impossible, as well as the last inch getting it back in.

11/18/2005 6:37:59 PM

do you have a good strong spark? are the plugs wet (fuel getting to them) is the engine grounded well? put a voltmeter lead on the actual battery + terminal and one on a clean spot on the block, if you dont have at least 10.5 volts cranking, you have a ground problem. back to the distributor, if it was't tightened up well it could have slipped. loosen it, and rotate it counterclockwise very slightly looking down on it from the top while cranking it. if all else fails, pull out the ol' compression gauge.

11/18/2005 6:43:09 PM

You don't have to pull it to rotate it! 69 just gave a pretty detailed procedure.

If you still don't get results, give me a holler. I got all the tools we'd need.

11/18/2005 8:55:27 PM

I did the ground test you suggested, and in fact it only measured 2-3 volts while cranking. I'll try moving the big ground wire around some more....

Oh, I did try rotating the distributor around... didn't make a difference. Sorry I'm used to the coilpacks on my miata =)

zxappeal, I'll try to get it running tonight, and if I don't have any luck I'll let ya know. I'll be around tomorrow night and sunday night.

[Edited on November 18, 2005 at 9:01 PM. Reason : ]

11/18/2005 8:58:39 PM

^ if you only got a few volts on that, you need to get a NEW 4-6 gauge ground cable and connect it from the battery to a good CLEAN ground on the engine block. chances are its corroded inside the wire, that will fix all your problems, and replace that small wire that melted too, its the only ground to the chassis you have for lights and gauges and shit

11/19/2005 12:25:10 AM

Hell, go for a 2-gauge cable. I used a 1 gauge on this Ford truck I did.

11/19/2005 3:08:27 AM

Ahh, so you need one to the chassis and one to the engine? That's good to know... both of these grounds were to the chassis! AFAIK there is no ground to the engine (never was...).

I guess whoever put in the '68 engine forgot the engine ground!

11/19/2005 4:28:40 AM

Well, I took some 4 gauge wire from my bro's old car amp and grounded it to the intake manifold. Unfortunately it didn't help any. The cable is in good shape.

I guess since the car was starting prior to this with no engine ground, maybe that's not going to help any.

zxappeal, maybe it's time I officially take you up on your offer. Or maybe I should take the battery to be tested first....

[Edited on November 19, 2005 at 4:44 AM. Reason : speeling]

11/19/2005 4:43:46 AM

did you check the voltage, directly from the lead part of the terminals, while you're cranking it? easiest way to see if you need a battery

11/19/2005 9:58:44 AM

Oh, no I didn't. Should it be above 10 also?

11/19/2005 3:54:40 PM

i didnt read the whole thing, but have you taken the battery to have it charged?

11/19/2005 6:02:05 PM

No, but I used a booster, which didn't help. The battery seems strong... the headlights and everything perform flawlessly.

11/19/2005 6:31:08 PM

headlights and starter motor are very different. stop whatever you are doing, hopefully you havent messed up the timing or anything else. take the battery to the parts store and have it charged and tested, replace if needed. before reinstalling the battery in the car, clean the connections well with a wire brush.

simple shit first folks.

11/19/2005 7:24:21 PM

=)

11/19/2005 7:53:23 PM

^^ basically from what he tried that i told him, he isn't getting full power to the starter, good voltage on the battery, but nothing across the block when its cranked. either an internally corroded cable, bad connection, or corroded terminals would be my speculation. cables are cheap, put both on there and be done with it

11/20/2005 3:06:26 PM