But were Chinese industry not supplying the American population with cheaper made goods, and instead those goods were coming from the US, where they would inevitably cost more to make, thus driving a measure of inflation we aren't experiencing now, then theoretically wouldn't this inflation "tax" be effecting our individual bottom lines as much as the gas "tax" due to the resulting elevated oil demand driven in the East, assuming all other things equal?

8/25/2005 10:56:43 PM

more people would have jobs if we still made those marginally cheaper products here

the area in and around roanoke rapids had 6,000 textiles jobs, good paying jobs, no more than 10 years ago

they have none now

and i thought we were feeling inflation right now
isn't that why the conservatives and economists say the gas prices aren't really that bad?

8/25/2005 10:58:48 PM

you're right


you are no econ major

8/25/2005 10:59:05 PM

Dude, you would fail a writing clarity test. That's one long-ass sentence, when it shouldn't be.

8/25/2005 10:59:45 PM

Yea, it sucks but I don't get a chance to do any real reading or writing these days and both skills suffer from up.

Quote :

"and i thought we were feeling inflation right now isn't that why the conservatives and economists say the gas prices aren't really that bad?"

We are feeling 'ok' levels of it. And I don't know where you have heard about the gas prices not being that bad, they are. It would be worse if we tried protecting American jobs, ASSUMING, that our economy (and the global economy for that matter) didn't begin to stagnate from it, in which case those jobs would still be lost.

We have the Chinese to thank for getting us out of the languishing we were doing post 911. We send our industry and investment there, they take that money and trust their savings as cheap loans back to us, allowing us to live well above our means. The traditionally strong US dollar is a great IOU or else this system wouldn't work. Let's hope the dollar doesn't crash any time soon.

8/25/2005 11:20:57 PM

Let's hope the Chinese Yuan gets to be valued based on its own worth instead of a basket of currencies so the world economy can get it on and devalue it.

8/25/2005 11:43:20 PM

Quote :

"and i thought we were feeling inflation right now isn't that why the conservatives and economists say the gas prices aren't really that bad? "

No, that's not what anyone has been saying. The recent run up in gas prices is NOT due to inflation. The highest gas price ever--in today's dollars, i.e. inflation adjusted--was ~$3.10 in 1981. Current prices are not the highest ever.

Last time I said this, I believe you said that inflation was a made-up bullshit cop out that economists use to get rich.

8/26/2005 12:06:20 AM

Quote :

"Let's hope the dollar doesn't crash any time soon."

If it did crash, down to worthless (1 RBC equals infinite dollars), wouldn't that make all the dollars they loaned us worthless? We sell 10 folding chairs to France, we've paid off all our national debt! Bravo!

Of course, we couldn't import any more oil, a major drag to be sure, but all those American jobs some people talk about would be restored.

8/26/2005 12:17:45 AM

AHHH wow its like what and where do you tackle misconceptions and outright wrongness....

8/26/2005 12:34:14 AM

Quote :

"Woodfoot: [baseless claim] [OMF ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE!!1] [WITH A TEAR-JERKER ENDING!!1] [statement of the obvious] [rhetorical question]"

[Edited on August 26, 2005 at 12:44 AM. Reason : Woodfoot wins]

8/26/2005 12:43:37 AM

exactly^

8/26/2005 12:44:24 AM

^^ have to give props

8/26/2005 1:07:23 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation

8/26/2005 2:15:19 AM

So I guess if you aren't a regular soap box member you can't make a thread? Or am I so completely retarded I am not honored with normal replies?

8/26/2005 7:58:57 AM

well isn't my face red

8/26/2005 8:20:38 AM

So no other on the board is an econ major?

8/26/2005 9:33:11 AM

Quote :

"TypeA: So I guess if you aren't a regular soap box member you can't make a thread? Or am I so completely retarded I am not honored with normal replies?"

You'll have to get used to it, this is just standard TSB.

There are plenty of armchair economists in here who can barely balance their own checkbooks; just learn to be an asshole and you'll do fine

8/26/2005 10:26:31 AM

http://typea.ytmnd.com

8/26/2005 12:00:34 PM

Quote :

"more people would have jobs if we still made those marginally cheaper products here the area in and around roanoke rapids had 6,000 textiles jobs, good paying jobs, no more than 10 years ago "

Thumbs down: Protectionism

Thumbs up: Free trade and free markets

8/26/2005 12:09:17 PM

Quote :

"you're right you are no econ major "

8/26/2005 12:31:59 PM

^ You're so smart big guy, instead of trolling, show me where I am wrong or provide an alternative opinion or something. Faggot.

[Edited on August 26, 2005 at 1:16 PM. Reason : Same to you guth, fucking douche bags]

8/26/2005 1:16:15 PM

type a

you should really just walk away and let me be the guy who gets the most pwnt in this thread

seriously

8/26/2005 4:17:35 PM

I'm not trying to pwn. If anything, I'd like to be enlightened or have at least a little bit of discussion about the topic from people more intelligent about this than me.

8/26/2005 5:08:46 PM

Well, I am a minor in Economics actually...

First, it goes back to the old principle of "There's No Such Thing as a Free Lunch." If we embrace protectionism and keep those jobs, we're going to be hit with higher prices than what we would pay if we got our shit from China. Losing those jobs hurts real people, but on the larger scale the economy is better off trading for many textiles than making them here at home.

Think of it this way: Let's say Michael Jordan is really damn good at mowing lawns. He's more efficient than any of the lawn services out there. Now he could go mow his lawns more efficiently than anyone he hires, or he could go make commericals endorsing products and pay somebody else to do it. Which is going to give him the greatest benefit? Obviously making a commercial does. This phenomenon exists on the macroeconomic scale, with the U.S. being Jordan and say China as the lawn service. That principle is called comparative advantage.

We may be better at making textiles than anybody else but in the end our resources are better spent elsewhere. This unfortunately causes some major short-term pain for all the people who get fucked out of jobs. This whole issue is a longer term, structural type of thing. Energy prices are going to have a much bigger effect on inflation in the short term.

[Edited on August 26, 2005 at 5:26 PM. Reason : .]

8/26/2005 5:20:30 PM

Quote :

"Thumbs down: Protectionism Thumbs up: Free trade and free markets"

Basically.

8/27/2005 1:38:38 PM

The market drives efficiency. Where something can be done cheaper, it should. Why should we pay more for something that can be done for less?

Should we accept a C student into NC State when there's an A student ready to take that spot? You're destroying efficiency when you allow a good to be produced at a higher level than equilibrium.

8/27/2005 5:43:10 PM

^ unless, of course, that C student is black and the A student is white... Then you admit the C student to promote "diversity."

8/27/2005 10:14:32 PM

Quote :

"The market drives efficiency. Where something can be done cheaper, it should. Why should we pay more for something that can be done for less?"

People do it all the time in "the market." Ever been to a grocery store? There are tons of "brand name" goods that people buy at a premium over the cheaper, "generic" ones.

Commoditization is not THE key driving force in the marketplace. Actually, consumer demand is.

In general, Americans would rather have LOTS of cheap stuff over a few "good" things. Creating cheap shit is, quite logically, easier to automate and to do with unskilled labor. For example, no matter how hard Nike tries, they aren't going to beat the Italian artisans at making leather shoes. The process of making REALLY GOOD shoes simply requires craftsmen; making cheaper shoes does not.

Americans want to have giant, cheaply-made houses, three-hundred pound bags of Rice Krispies, and so on. This is a trend in consumer demand that is supported by commoditization and globalization.

So, no, sending production overseas does not create "growth" in and of itself. It only does so when the consumers want LOTS OF CHEAP SHIT.

(or, more commonly, when marketing campaigns lead consumers to believe that "CHEAP SHIT" is really "quality")

8/28/2005 9:08:50 AM

Wow wow wow, you aren't insulting the Rice Krispy market, are you? I just can't live without that stuff!

That said, why havn't the Italian shoe makers, using advertising, convinced American's that quality is more important than price? Don't they want to make money, too? Or, perhaps, the reason advertising for cheap shit works is because American's are pre-disposed to consume that type of commodity.

8/28/2005 9:26:12 AM

8/28/2005 12:16:47 PM

cometo think of it, Ihave had the urge to skull fuck you.

8/28/2005 1:30:39 PM

who doesn't dream of being petty gentry?

8/28/2005 3:50:18 PM